Mental Liberation in Burma During the Current Military Dictatorship

Interview with mental health workers San Oo and Dr. Aung Min conducted via video telecommunications on April 27th, 2025. They discuss their transition from Myanmar’s oppressive psychiatric hospitals to community-based mental health care, emphasizing human rights and art therapy. San Oo left institutional work in 2010, partnering with Dr. Aung Min to create alternative, inclusive programs recognized by the WHO. After Myanmar’s 2021 military coup, international funding ceased, forcing them to operate discreetly to avoid regime collaboration. They highlight systemic issues: medical-model dependency, cultural stigma, and military oppression. Their liberation psychology approach uses art, storytelling, and mutual support to resist systemic violence subtly. Despite risks, they continue through underground networks, rejecting military coercion. They stress solidarity amid collective trauma, worsened by military airstrikes and international inaction. The interview underscores their resilience and the need for global mental health worker support in crises.
Dr. Aung Min: Hi.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Hello, I'm very appreciative of you two for being here, so thank you. A big part of this project is because as mental health workers, I believe we don't get enough support from each other worldwide and so this project is trying to help do that to some degree.
San Oo: Thank you.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy) : How did you all become mental health workers?
San Oo: For me, I'm a psychiatrist. I graduated in the degree of psychiatry in 2003. Then I became a mental health professional. I started to work in the government psychiatric hospital as a government job. That's the basic kind of experience, like what is the meaning for psychosocial services for recovery and rehabilitation of the cases. The hospital is a very medical model and there's a lot of confinement in these long term institutions. That's kind of a hell for the people, so it's a kind of a total hell, like imprisonment, psychosocial recovery and rehabilitation centers. Many people end up with a life in long term confinement and they finally die in the psychiatric hospital. No family members came. So that's really tragic for me and it's traumatized me, really. I could not do any self care with my growth or with myself. So I decided to leave the hospital and then I started a new situation in a community based care in 2010. And in collaborating with the other workers like Dr. Aung Min and he is a big resource like a doctor, general medical doctor. But his personal interest is the very heart, a writer, and independent filmmaker. We just think of the very alternative approaches to accommodate the persons with lived (mental health) experience.
So we started the very small scale interventions with our users. From that experience, it was really meaningful and very helpful, for independent living and inclusive community and social change. We got international support from Open Society Foundation, Open Society Mental Health Initiative. We developed community based care and initiated a program since 2015, so a nice project. For five years we ran the project and in 2021, the WHO recommended it as the good guidance community mental health package. Because in their eyes it is the primary clinic, a health clinic integrated with mental health. But our very big portion is this very alternative approach. So WHO first recognized the alternative approach in very community based care for social inclusion and human rights and independent living of the persons with lived experience. But in 2020, a coup happened, so the Open Society Foundation had to leave the country, but we continue our sustainability through some help from the culture organizations from British Council and French Institutes and Italian embassies. Those are the kind of resources that contacted and communicated with us. Again, we continue the sustainability of the mental health initiative. So that's my information. Thank you.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Most of the funding has to come internationally?
San Oo: Yes, not nationally. That's our level, like the clinic. So WHO found trust at our level of collaboration. They don't want us to collaborate with the government or especially the new regime. So we run at our own level and network.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): How about you, Dr. Aung Min?
Dr. Aung Min: Nice to meet you, Jeff.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy) : Nice to meet you, thank you.
Dr. Aung Min: I graduated from the American Institute in 1988. But I am very interested in writing, writing stories and making films and also art and drawing, especially drawing. But I have to work with a general practitioner for my money. I had to work till 2010. At the time of 2010, San left a government hospital then she joined my general clinic. So I work with her. Also her patients are very mentally severe patients. So she requests me to work for the patient. For me I am not an expert on pharmacology. So I work together with the mental patient. Like drawing, writing and talking together and we also cook together. So I am very interested in working with mentally ill patients. I found they are very, very satisfied to work with me and come to my room, my gallery. My gallery name is, "The room". The room is part of our clinic.

From 2010 to 2020 at the time of the coup I left my clinic as a GP, the general practitioner. I stopped being a medical doctor, no more general practitioner, general practice. So I'm working full time with her patients. I made some study about trauma. I have made some exhibitions, I have 4 exhibitions. The exhibition's name is, "No trauma, no art". So many paintings, talking and making psychodrama, working together as a dramatic moment, every week. I think they are very, very improving. No very, very many of those psychiatric drugs and no more go through psychiatric hospitals. They can live their lives in a very meaningful way. I think this is good condition for them and also for me and also for her. But in 2021 the military coup stopped the funding, no more funds. So I make a small scale and low profile. It’s very dangerous because they invite me to work together with the government. I don't like working with the military. So we are going on [inaudible] like training through the trainer, another to be doctor, another my next generation. We are teaching or sharing my experience. This is my update condition. Thank you for that.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Thank you. Part of this project that I'm working on is liberation psychology, human rights and psychology. Have you been able to adopt some type of liberation psychology in Myanmar right now during this occupation of the government? I'm curious how you work with psychotherapy, psychology and human rights.
San Oo: Even the previous government was known as that kind of democracy and human rights but in real practice, it is not very much, so, it was not very much about human rights and democracy. There's many issues, big issues like Rohingya issues in 2017, like genocides. But the democratic government did not say anything. The right thing about those issues. But it's the very majority and big democracy icon among locals, so we have to keep our mouths shut. Yeah, it's the democratic government, but we have to take risks to be very frank and to be very true about our own opinion. It's kind of understanding among some people to see (practice) human rights.
There's a runaway filmmaker, in Myanmar, but he's a runaway, very independent filmmaker. So, he ran away, but he came in and he got through those experiences in filmmaking, because he reached out to every part of the sites and he made the documentation (of their mental health work). He worked with us, Aung Min and me, very close together. So, he documented those experiences through some community sites, like in a liquor shop. We didn't have television, so we didn't see television for a long time, because we don't like that kind of propaganda, not very much in real human rights.
But at that time, on that day, Aung San Suu Kyi would speak up on television about the Rohingya issue. So, we came up to a liquor shop, very public, there’s a huge television, so, we saw the TV and we saw our speech and the filmmaker documented this, the viewer and the speaker, like a democracy icon. So, that's the thing what we can do with liberation. We could not speak up or be very frank to that icon in the public, because people say she is mother Suu, our mother, but we don't have this sense. So, that's the kind of thing we can do together. Those Eastern runaway, you know, exile. So, he got the feeling to talk about liberation and how liberation was challenged in that democratic time. He made (the documentary about) all (the) things about the community based on our clinic as the window, the window of seeing inside Yema. His film, the clinic, reached the International Documentary Film Festival, IDF. He was a finalist, so he got many international viewers.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Wow. That's really impressive. Last year was the documentary film based in Palestine.
San Oo: Yeah, that's it. So, he talked in this narration, about what's happening inside the country, about the minorities and the genocides, and then our clinic, like our clinic's art program. At that time, the general practice was running but the general practice and that clinic was not supported by the system, so, that's like Rohingya issues. And he ended up his documentary film with the coup at the day the coup happened, with a woman, like a very young adult, doing aerobic exercise in Nay Pyi Taw. So, it went viral.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): I remember that, where she didn't see the military trucks?
San Oo: Yeah, so, that's it. This documentary, this very art, used every item of liberation psychology, so we worked together at that time. In the time of COVID, we were really kind of struggling, so, at that time, I started drawing. I was really interested in the portraits of the person, so, I drew many paintings of some big figures, like different army generals. So, my portrait, and Aung San Suu Kyi, my portrait, and Rohingya. That's how I use my drawing, like, the scenes, we talk about the story.
So, we work for liberation psychology in our own way, maybe in a different way, like, not a system, but outside the system, underground, even during the democratic era. Very struggling situations to address or to work out the liberation psychology. But we work in a meaningful way, like artistic ways, or underground, or very network, especially at that time, we work with a network, very underground, not to be obvious because the military regime is very political. Aung Min was famous and made internationally, so, he was invited to join them, but he did not want to join them. So, they came and shoot our art program, like, their TV program, to put up in their TV, so, we don't want them. Now, the weather was very hot, and my users, my cases were very unstable. So, that is kind of a way to reject them (the military).
If we talk to them (the military) very frankly, "Oh, we don't want you," they will be very angry, and they will attack us, so we could not live on going like that. So, that's a thing.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): It's really hard to be in that situation?
San Oo: Yeah.
Dr. Aung Min: I am now 61 years old. In my life, the human rights of humanity is very, very low in Myanmar. I like Russian writer Anton Chekhov, especially Vaksit. Vaksit is my favorite one. So, all my people, including me, live like that in Vaksit. I find my patients not becoming addicts because of the severe (mental health) struggles, but because we are at the very lowest level in my country, no human rights, no dignity, no support. But, I'm fine, my motto, my philosophy is, “every human being is an addict, every man is a genius”. So, we work together, I can learn from my patients because they have so many great ideas. They have so many great performances, so many great stories. So, we are 50-50, I work 50, they work 50. So, this is a good human right. The best human rights are a very, very collaborative, very, very mutual work.
This is my finding. We need basic human needs like room, electricity, food, the basic human needs. Currently we have to find a lot of them. After we get basic human needs we can make another level or a different level of health. So, I think this is a very good relationship, a very good human right, and a way to get human rights. So, in a hospital or a mental clinic, patients hate a lot of those places because they have no technique, they go to the doctor but continue to struggle. They didn't have any pleasures there. So, we need to make the spaces safe. And working together is very meaningful for me.

Update, we are working together with Japanese group, Tojo Sotaria. We have the very same vision. They are working with CVM and patients, but they are rich so they can support the room, medicine, food, salary, and so many other basic needs for us. They like me, they like San and me because we are base support. At base support is more and more safe, more and more safety, more and more satisfaction.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): The person from Japan, is he a psychologist?
San Oo: Not really. He is a kind of social worker, but he is also an epidemiologist. He studied in Europe. So, after having many experiences in Japan, as Japan is very developed, but very also very reliant on the medical model. They are rich with the provisions of many psychiatrists and psychologists, but still, that's a challenge for mentally ill people to get independent living and social inclusion, that is not very systematic. So in Japan's way, for him, it's quite difficult to express fully about systems of violence. Somehow systematic, but not in a way of human rights and humanity. So after his experiences in Europe, and Japan, he developed that kind of model of group home like mental health welfare. That psychology is a kind of liberation psychology but in Japanese culture it's quite a hierarchy. But he's very European in some ways as well. He collaborated with a psychology mentor from Bologna, Italy. They are in partnerships, so they reached out to us. I know the Bologna de-institutionalization is a very big liberation that he appreciated very, very much. So that's it.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Well, because you mentioned the medical model, what have you found that is more culturally appropriate for people in Myanmar?
San Oo: Yeah, that's a kind of secondary culture, that's my perspective to analyze that kind of appreciation in terms of cultural ways. In Burmese kingdom, there's no scientific medical model like a traditional medicine to accommodate the person with mental illness in the community, because there's no hospital at all. That's my understanding. That's a culture to accommodate the person with mental illness in their community through traditional medicines, herbal medicines. But after colonial days, 1900, that's after being colonized, that's the start of a very scientific school, like a medical school. So medical school recruited the very upper level of Burmese people. So the rich ones attended medical school. That's very luxurious kinds, the rich kinds with medical degrees. So they joined the medical school in the UK. That was a very big influence to appreciate, being appreciated by the local people. The big doctor has become the kind of nice image for parents. So parents want their offspring to be a medical doctor as the very priority, prioritized role. And then the Socialist Party won power, Burma Socialist Party, BSP, led by General Ne Win (1962-1988), a very big military personnel. At that time, the country was closed, no connection internationally, very isolated, no internet, no phone, 25 years without communication internationally. But the role of medical school kept their position at the very first rank level.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): That was mainly for the rich.
San Oo: Yeah. Even my parents wanted me to attend medical school because I got kind of flying marks in that exam. Aung Min was forced by his mom because he was the youngest child and very clever.
Dr. Aung Min: For me, my parents forced me to become a medical doctor, to get respect, especially, as were very poor. Poverty forced me to become a medical doctor because medical doctors earn money every day. You work at a time of war, at a time of any time, you work you have money, not rich but very good professionally. So for culture, your question, I'm very interested in your question. In Myanmar culture, there is a lot of discrimination against the mentally ill in Buddhist religion. My Gautama Buddha never discriminated, but in Buddhist tradition a monk will sometimes discriminate. So not only the monk but also the people, they are intoxicated with discrimination against the mentally ill. They support mentally ill patients only for pity. Somebody gives food straight down on a street. They think this is a donation, but really it’s discrimination.
So we need to mutually work together. We don’t need pity, pity to get food like this. So our culture make the mentally ill patient to be a beggar. Also hospital make the patient become a beggar. Last month I visited the Yangon Medical Hospital to meet with my patient. In the ground, so some mentally ill patient come to me, "Please give a tip of money, please a tip of money," secretly because they are afraid of the doctor or administration. So they come to me, "Please give money." Our culture makes the mentally ill patient a beggar. This is a kind of discrimination. And also in this BDS, like this recent earthquake, all earthquake victims, they make the active victim to be a beggar.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): To clarify, if they're in a hospital, they don't teach them skills. They don't teach them a career. They don't teach them any kind of work skills. So they're just thrown out and become beggars.
Dr. Aung Min: Yeah.
San Oo: Of course, yes. They don't have any skills, training for the patients.
Dr. Aung Min: And also psychologically make beggars. It's more important, psychologically, to make them become beggars.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Are you you two worried about having an interview with me with how the government is right now?
San Oo: With this interview?
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Are you worried personally about any kind of oppression from the government just for talking about the conditions?
San Oo: Our learning was not to criticize the military very obviously. In our network it's okay but not in public. The political leaders or activists, their work is to talk very negatively about the military. We feel very negative about the military, but for our safety, we don't talk very obviously in the social media, but somehow we continue to practice our liberation in our own way.
Dr. Aung Min: Talking in English is okay. If they're talking in Burmese and in public on Facebook, it's very dangerous. Because the government is watching Facebook, Facebook is a very white media for Myanmar people. So they didn't like it. This is a crime. But if we work with English and it’s written in paper or something, they aren't interested.
Facebook shared information that could support Myanmar genocide allegations, UN investigator says
https://www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/myanmar-facebook-genocide-war-crimes-b2166052.html
San Oo: Even the government doctors, I mean, the big doctors become very political because they want to keep that kind of hierarchy, like a power balance, you know, "We are the superior." So they continue that practice, that's the culture too. But younger generations are becoming more and more educated and they wish to be independent, not in the way of being a soldier, they have to be better with the Burmese army. But ideologically, psychologically, they are trying to find liberation through some practices like equality and human rights practices, so that's good. We find that kind of practice in working together, we feel some satisfaction or confidence, "Oh, we are ongoing. We are ongoing." So that's it. That's the doctors' politics to suppress their...
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): So the doctors tend to support the military or do they tend to support the people?
San Oo: They are divided. Some doctors continue to work for the government but some doctors become members of the CDM, Civil Disobedient Movement. They enter the CDM movement, so they stay very silent and they stay very quiet. So some CDMs are in the forest with ethnic armies or at the Thai-Burma border but some CDMs are still inside the country but they are kind of silent and quiet. But the military continues to run the regulation of the system through that kind of group of government doctors.
We already left government jobs, very early in 2010, so it is somehow fortunate for me.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Are you personally feeling better after leaving? Are you feeling more healed?
San Oo: Yeah, we find ourselves in connection with our people. So that's kind of healing, not the full healing, even it's not full healing because the trauma is ongoing and uncertainty is ongoing and threat is all around.
Dr. Aung Min: I think we included, including me and including San, all are somehow in collective trauma. So we need very important self-care. So we are now working closely, talking, sharing, we are cooking together like this because it is such a long period. So, 2021, before 2020 is a COVID period, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, so we are traumatized politically. So we need a very good collective group for trauma healing. We have to meet with others- like you, because we are closed in a box. So we need to talk with each other and we are sharing to one another. So we are in solidarity which is very important. Not for fighting, just for staff safety.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Thank you for even saying that because one of the reasons why I started up this project is because I am from the U.S. We are on the verge of some type of civil war ourselves. The oppression has been here for years now but getting worse. I want to remain in international solidarity with other people who've already been working in this horrid conditions. If anything, give us guidance on what to do.
San Oo: Yes, of course. And here, many organizations for psychology, I saw some of them kind of suppressed, but because of the fear they turned out to be not moving very much. On the other hand, the military becomes more and more brutal like airstrikes. So I talked to the UN psychology personnel about their interventions to Burmese army. So like they have the human rights sector and don't know what, but they are somehow silent, maybe not able to intervene Burmese army to stop the killing.This kind of killing is most traumatizing to me personally. Every day children were killed, 1, 2, 3, 4 including women were killed, civilians were killed. But Burmese army accused the civilians as the rebels. In UN terms, they are guerrilla. I feel very happy with the terms like, guerrilla for ethnic communities. That's the UN, they have the system for peace, but that's very challenging for us to ask the real UN for psychological help. Because they don't say anything to the Burmese army to stop those kinds of brutal things like airstrikes and bombings. The ethnic army won in many parts of the country, so Burmese army had a dilemma. They don't want to lose, so they use their destructive power. It's more and more bombings every day. Bombings every site of the country.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): And around you all where the clinic is?
San Oo: In my area?
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Yeah, does it happen around your area?
San Oo: No, that's Yangon. Yangon is the only somewhat safe city in Myanmar now.
Because Yangon has two sides, the Burmese military supports some of us, which gets some support at times, but our people don't like the Burmese army at all. So for the army it's quite hard for them to bomb over the city because it has their people too. But now the many buildings in Naypyidaw, their capital, were damaged in the earthquake. So there's news that they will be moving into Yangon, some military offices will be moving into Yangon. But it's very secretive, secretive works of the Burmese army. And they set up the nuclear program with Russia. So that's it. The nuclear program with Russia and China.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): No.
San Oo: And jet fighters and fuels, those are very big companies that still provide the fuels for Burmese army.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Yeah and I know that the US is a part of it as well, it's fueled by Facebook with Zuckerberg.
San Oo: They work across borders, so there are many big trade connections.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Is there anything that I didn't ask today that, one of you, think is important that I should have?
San Oo: First of all, I am very thankful to you, seeing you and we are so glad. Because we have the same vision, same appreciation, same inspiration. That's really energy for us. Thank you very much.
Jeff Jones (Liberation Psychotherapy): Thanks,thanks so much to the both of you and all your work. I really appreciate this and stand in solidarity with you all.
San Oo : Thank you for the solidarity. Thank you so much.